After Fifteen Years Learning and Teaching in Prisons, Rev. Dr. Louis Threatt is Even “More Inspired”
As a student in Duke Divinity School in 2009, Rev. Dr. Louis Threatt (M.Div. ’11) had the opportunity to take one of his courses alongside incarcerated students in a local prison as part of Project TURN. Led by the efforts of three former students, Rev. Dr. Sarah Jobe (M.Div. ’06), the Rev. Jonathan Wilson-Hartgrove (M.Div. ’06), and the Rev. Isaac Villegas (M.Div. ’06), Project TURN was then housed at the local faith organization School for Conversion, in partnership with Duke Divinity School and North Carolina prisons.
Learning in prison was a formative experience for Threatt. After graduating, he returned to Duke Divinity School to teach courses — while also serving as Project TURN’s new Executive Director. Eventually, Project TURN moved to the Duke Divinity School’s Certificate in Prison Studies program, where Threatt still teaches and advises faculty on prison teaching.
In this interview, Threatt discusses what he has learned and observed through his 15 years of studying, ministering, teaching, and helping others teach inside prisons.
This interview has been edited and condensed.
What does the name Project TURN mean?
TURN stands for Transform Unlock ReNew. It is rooted in Romans 12:2: “Be ye not conformed to this world, but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind…”
Project TURN shows us how both people who are incarcerated and people who are not can find the renewal that helps us imagine life together in a new way. It helps us realize that every person should have an opportunity to know someone whose life is very different from their own and to learn how to listen to them well. It means seeing possibilities that you had never seen in yourself, turning yourself, turning your life around, turning a distorted narrative into a redemptive, restorative testimony. It pushes us to create a space where we can learn to see the shocking beauty of all people: a mixed community that helps us to birth and reimagine new possibilities in each other, making that beloved community possible.
When you came to study at Duke, how did you get involved in prison education?
Project TURN goes back further for me than most faculty, to the early stages in 2009 when it was being developed by some Duke Divinity alums. The project delivers courses in which Duke students are taught side-by-side with those inside the prison. These courses were just starting under the directorship of the wonderful Sarah Jobe.
In my second year as a student at the Divinity School, the Bishop Ken Carder taught this revolutionary course: Restorative Justice, Prison Ministry, and the Church. He also introduced me to the TURN courses that had begun. I was able to join a course at Durham Correctional Center (which is now closed) and be amongst some great minds. I was learning not only from the Bishop but also from the men inside.
How did Project TURN influence your academic career at Duke?
Going into my third year, I heard about a newly available Certificate in Prison Studies. This was exciting because I had already been engaged in prison work for some time, at and outside Duke. I was blessed to work as a chaplain in the Federal Medical Center, throughout all the units in the federal prison in Butner, and at the Youth Development Center C.A. Dillion.
I felt in my spirit that my calling was to become a prison chaplain. When I graduated, I was part of the first group to obtain the Certificate in Prison Studies, and I was the first African American and minority student to receive the certificate. That was all a great joy for me — going inside the prison, being a part of courses, listening and learning alongside those brothers inside, building lasting relationships with the brothers and the staff, and serving as a chaplain.
The Prison Studies Certificate was life-changing for me. It opened a whole new outlook on life from an academic prison perspective.
After graduating, what brought you back to Project TURN?
I thought I would go further into prison chaplaincy. But at that time, around 2011 and 2012, the federal facilities were putting holds on chaplain positions. So immediately after graduation, I was called into pastoring a congregation in Winston Salem, though I was still engaged in the prisons and would later serve as State Chaplain.
Then I heard about a position: Executive Director of Project TURN. I was still connected with Duke and the leaders of Project TURN. I felt led by the Spirit to put my name in for the position, and as God would have it, I became the next Executive Director. Coming from the position of receiving the Certificate in Prison Studies to helping students pursue it and signing it for them was a great blessing. Thirteen years later, I’m still bringing courses inside, helping students and professors, and teaching.
How do you help other professors teach inside prisons?
Not many professors have much experience with or knowledge of incarceration, but several are willing to bring a course inside. They ask me questions like what to expect, what are the struggles, what are the policies to be aware of. I sit down with them, talk with them, and walk them through the process. There is a required in-prison training that everyone must attend. I help them navigate it and understand its purpose.
When preparing the course and lessons, some professors will ask me to review their syllabus. I count that as a great honor, as we collaborate to bring quality, outstanding courses into the facilities. On several occasions, I have met with the men in the facilities to prepare them for the upcoming classes. Once we get inside the classroom, I open the room. I make sure the seats are arranged in a circle and that one group of students is not gathered up in one area according to race, class, gender, age, or even faith. I alternate seats between the incarcerated students and the Duke students. I help calm the anxieties and then pass it to the professor.
Sometimes professors invite me to teach a session or sessions throughout the course. Assisting with or co-teaching a course is a great blessing. And being alongside the professors, I can see a whole change in their teaching styles, how they approach the course, and what they do afterwards. Some of them will say they can’t wait to get back inside the prison.
“Inside these walls lies a rawness, an authenticity, and a vast hunger for learning that any professor appreciates. The students in prison…are in class ready and eager to learn. And once they build relationships — with the professor, with each other, and with the Duke students — the ‘turning’ starts to take place. Students, particularly those inside, become vulnerable and inspired, inspiring the Duke students in turn.”
– Rev. Dr. Louis Threatt
What have you observed about what happens in the classroom?
A professor tends to come inside with a set agenda and an idea that they have to teach in a particular way. Soon after the classes begin, new ways to teach and new possibilities are born anew. This is based on what they have learned, inside, between the barbed wires fences and steel doors: there’s revolutionary and amazing teaching that is not caught by the eye and the security cameras but felt in the souls. A style of teaching that inspires you to reevaluate your purpose and be motivated each time you enter the prison.
Inside these walls lies a rawness, an authenticity, and a vast hunger for learning that any professor appreciates. The students in prison might never have taken a college course or they might have a doctorate degree; either way, just the fact of Duke coming inside with its history and prestige heightens everybody. Those students are in class ready and eager to learn.
And once they build relationships — with the professor, with each other, and with the Duke students — the “turning” starts to take place. Students, particularly those inside, become vulnerable and inspired, inspiring the Duke students in turn. I remember hearing some men say, “I was able to write papers on a college level. I was able to complete the work, despite all the challenges that surround me. I did it. Now what else can I do?”
I’ve seen students on the inside do better than the Duke students. The Duke students feel encouraged to step up their own work. And they have to adjust too. For example, they are encouraged to handwrite their work like their incarcerated classmates. This takes some time to get used to, but they are able to learn from their experience, even in this. I must say, being able to see this turning across the board is beautiful.
But what we may be used to in a normal university classroom meets a stark difference. Sometimes classes are cancelled because of a lockdown. An incarcerated student might be caught in the hole [in solitary confinement]. They might be writing on a tissue because they don’t have a computer and then the lights go out.
As professors, we have to recognize all these different challenges and communicate to the students that the class is a space that welcomes them in their current reality. This means that the teaching method has to change — but that doesn’t mean dialing it down. It means dialing it up in another way.
What’s a time you witnessed this “dialing up”?
I’m always inspired by the students’ projects. In their papers, the words have a melody, and it will almost sing in their writing. I remember teaching inside Central Prison on death row. I remember one brother who painted the last moments of when someone was executed. He painted, with words, how the lights changed, how bodies moved differently, how peoples’ body language changed, and how the air even seemed different. Then, from memory, he started naming everybody who passed. He’d been there the longest. I will never forget that.
Another time, there was a Muslim student who took a predominantly Christian course covering a book in the New Testament. While he stood firm in his faith, he would offer sound wisdom about the Christian text from a unique perspective that made us all wonder in amazement. In his final presentation, he sang a song about a New Testament text — it was breathtaking. He also made a masterpiece collage that took him months to create. He graciously gave it to me. I still have it to this day.
“I want the students inside to have the same opportunity for credit as the Duke students. That’s one of the battles we’ve been dealing with for a long time. The students inside are taking the same courses, but they’re not getting credit. We’ve fought to try to find creative ways to make it happen.”
– Rev. Dr. Louis Threatt
During your 15 years of involvement in prison education, has your perspective changed? What do you want to see in the future?
Nothing has really changed for me. I am just more inspired. I want the students inside to have the same opportunity for credit as the Duke students. That’s one of the battles we’ve been dealing with for a long time. The students inside are taking the same courses, but they’re not getting credit. We’ve fought to try to find creative ways to make it happen.
As of now, we’ve found a way to recognize those who have done a number of courses with a Certificate of Theological Studies. I’m inspired to get course credit and more recognition for those inside. I’m hopeful for more people of color to come inside, to take a class or to teach a class. I want more courses inside the prisons and more professors to be able to teach — and to be able to do so in-load.
So, yes, not too many changes but more inspiration. I welcome the future changes as TURN is helping many to be transformed even on a college, institutional, community level.
Rev. Dr. Louis Threatt is also a member of the Prison Engagement Initiative (PEI) at the Kenan Institute for Ethics. The Prison Engagement Initiative was cofounded in 2022 by two leaders of Project TURN (Sarah Jobe and Douglas Campbell) to expand prison engagement at Duke beyond the Divinity School. One of PEI’s goals is to bring Trinity College of Arts & Sciences courses inside prisons, and to create a BA program for incarcerated students in collaboration with other colleges and universities in the N.C. Triangle. For ways to get involved, visit PEI’s webpage.
